Interview with David Harris Ebenbach by Nannette Croce
This interview originally appeared at Rose & Thorn Literary Ezine in the Winter 2005 issue.
David Harris Ebenbach wants to be the guy who writes about Philadelphia the way Philip Roth writes about Newark and Stuart Dybek writes about Chicago. After winning the Drue Heinz Literature Prize and publication by the University of Pittsburgh Press for his short story collection, Between Camelots, the Philadelphia native, who writes both fiction and poetry, is well on his way to becoming that and more.
Previous Drue Heinz winners include names like Rick DeMarinis and Stewart O’Nan (also the judge who awarded Ebenbach’s prize). Judging has fallen to notables like Joyce Carol Oates and Robert Penn Warren. Still, David Ebenbach remains amazingly humble for someone who has just won a prestigious prize and is enjoying great success on a national book tour that, as of our meeting last November, had taken him all over the Midwest as well as many major cities along the East Coast.
Between Camelots is a collection of stories written over a ten-year period They deal mainly with relationships, actually the time between relationships or relationships in transition. They are not restricted to romantic relationships, but include friendships and family relationships as well. Many of the characters, not surprisingly for a writer who lists Philadelphia “firsts” on his website––first American library, first art museum, first zoo–– also have a connection to the city.
David and I, long-time cyber-acquaintances, finally met face to face in a small coffee shop on Locust street when his tour took him to–– where else–– Philadelphia.
R&T: David, congratulations on winning the Drue Heinz award. How is the tour going so far?
Ebenbach: It’s great, though it’s a little dizzying. It’s sort of like, if it’s Wednesday, this must be Philadelphia. Two days ago, I was in Portland, Maine. Then yesterday I was here, and I’m reading here again tonight. So it just goes. But it feels like the victory lap…running around and reading from your book. The whole thing has been a pleasure.
R&T: Your work has been published in various print and online publications such as Crazyhorse, Crescent Review, and La Petite Zine to name a few. Does it feel different to have some of your work collected into book form?
Ebenbach: Some of the people who come to the readings know me, but [literary magazines] have such a specific readership. I have yet to encounter anyone who knows me from one of them. That’s what’s exciting about the book because you really jump out of that world of literary magazines, which is a great place to be, but it’s so narrow. Now I can reach people who have never heard of the words, literary magazine. Also, there’s something that has my name on it. It has my face on it. It is very exciting.
R&T: How do you feel about winning the Drue Heinz Literary Award? I mean, obviously, you must be thrilled. Who wouldn’t be? But do you also feel validated as a writer?
Ebenbach: First of all, I should say, there is an element of the random in this. It was sort of winnowed down from 300 selections to, I think, six selections, then three selections, and there were a lot of good manuscripts in there, and the judge, Stewart O’Nan, had to winnow it down from three, and if he was a
different guy with different sensibilities, he would have picked another manuscript. How do I know that? Because I’ve applied for other prizes and didn’t win them. But that said, it is validating because someone I really respect, Stewart O’Nan liked it, and I’m going around the country now and people are having these big reactions to these stories. People I don’t know are e-mailing me about them.
R&T: When you publish in literary magazines, you don’t really get that much feedback.
Ebenbach: I was very fortunate in that the editor of the first magazine I was ever published in was kind enough to forward to me everything that was sent to the magazine in response to the story. No one’s ever done that since, and I loved it because [publishing a story in a magazine] is like throwing a pebble
into a well, and it’s so deep that you don’t even hear the splash, and that’s a scary feeling for a writer because you think, maybe I should just keep it in my room instead of putting it out there, but now I’m starting to hear the splash.
R&T: Can you tell us how you came up with the title Between Camelots?
Ebenbach: As a people, I think we are all excited about these sort of peak experiences, and those are what we are striving for all the time, but I guess the thesis of my book is that the things that are most interesting to look at are actually not those peak experiences, but the times in between where you’re kind of waiting for something.
R&T: The valleys?
Ebenbach: Exactly, the valleys. That’s where most of the living is done––for all of us. In fact, I had a reading in Madison [Wisconsin] where they advertised it as “Beyond Camelots,” and that concept was very scary for me. It implied that they were all beyond hope, and I think the opposite is true. They are all very hopeful.
R&T: In your writing you seem to slip easily into “different skins.” You write just as believably from the POV of a female college graduate or a gay black man as you do from the POV of a young man from Philadelphia, more like yourself. In addition to your MFA, you have a Ph.D. in Psychology. Is there any connection?
Ebenbach: I think it’s more a desire to try and express different aspects of myself that have always been around, and you pick skins that will allow that to come out. I think one of the problems with modern literature is that people are a little bit afraid to write outside themselves. One of my big
inspirations is Salman Rushdie who I think is a very courageous writer. In a very immediate sense because people are trying to kill him, but also he writes about anything he wants to, and people like him are going to save us, I think, and I am hoping to join that.
R&T: You have been published in print journals as well as ezines. Do you see a difference between the two and the kind of work they accept?
Ebenbach: I think there is a little bit of a difference. I think the ezine is in a position to be a little more courageous. I think it boils down to something very simple in that paper costs money and electrons don’t. [Ezines] can afford to publish something that’s a little edgy or experimental or frightening to people, but if a literary magazine prints a ten-page story that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, they’ve put a lot of money into that. I also think that ezines, because they are so new, have less of a reputation to stand on. The Paris Review has to publish a certain kind of thing because people are used to that.
R&T: The other side of that is that some see ezines as responsible for the trend toward writing for free.
Ebenbach: Literary magazines hardly pay any money either. That’s been going on a while. Story Magazine used to be the one great place, and they paid a lot of money, but then they went out of business, and The New Yorker is no longer taking unsolicited manuscripts. Atlantic is hardly publishing any more fiction. So, I wouldn’t blame ezines. I think the movement is going in that direction anyway. Of course, I always hear from ezines that they like things short, so that is an area where they can’t take the risks that some
literary magazines can. So there is a need for both.
R&T: You are also working on a novel. Do you see a difference between writing novels and short stories? Do you ever have difficulty getting yourself to write?
Ebenbach: The problem many MFA students have is that they don’t realize that they are extremely different. They think that a short story is just a shorter form of a novel. The thing I like about writing novels is that it is enormous…you’re not going to write it today, but the good thing about that is that you know what you will be doing tomorrow. With a short story you say, well I hope I am inspired tomorrow, but with a novel you say, well, I’m in the middle of chapter seven, so I’d better work on chapter seven tomorrow. I’m a “write every day” kind of guy, but when I’m working on short stories, I’m not. You can’t be. It’s a cruel expectation of yourself, but with a novel, I think you can and should. The thing that saves me is that I go crazy when I don’t write. I am pretty disciplined, but I don’t have to be because eventually I will just lose it if I don’t sit down and write, and at that point, I will do it.
R&T: Many of your characters have a Philadelphia connection. As someone who also grew up in the Philadelphia area, my perception is that Philadelphia does not get nearly enough exposure in literature. Would you agree?
Ebenbach: Ninety percent of the people who write, write about New York City. New York is a nice place. I really like it, but we don’t need anybody else writing about it. Philadelphia, to me, is a very complicated city. There’s a lot of conflict, a lot of raw emotion. You feel like a fistfight could break out at any minute, and I like that, and I would love to be the guy who writes about Philly. Of course, I write about other places, too, but it’s always going to be a big part of things for me.
R&T: Why do you think that Philadelphia writers, in fact writers from most cities outside New York, avoid being specific about location?
Ebenbach: I had a student from India. She never wanted to use specific street names because she said no one would know them, and I said it doesn’t matter. Even if you made them up, it gives richness to the story. There’s no such thing as a generic place. You have to be specific. For me, too, there are these layers. People who don’t know Philadelphia will just get the texture [of the street names], but people who do know Philadelphia will have that inside corner, and I want them to. Why shouldn’t Philadelphians be privileged occasionally, as they read, to recognize their city?
R&T: You are also a poet. Can you tell us about the Philadelphia Poetry Provider?
Ebenbach: I write poetry, but I’m not formally trained in it. So, I took a six month period and concentrated on writing and reading poetry, and I had an experience sitting in a café like this one, and I remember looking around and thinking I bet everyone here hates poetry. They had some bad English teacher or something, and I thought, but if they just read it, and no one was asking them what it meant or expected them to say something brilliant about it, they might really like it. Then I started to think, what if they came to their car and under their windshield wiper was a poem or they bought a book and inside it was a poem. Maybe it would make them happy, and they would really like it, but the wrinkle was I didn’t want anyone to steal [my poems] because they weren’t published yet. So I wrote that I was the Philadelphia Poetry Provider’s poet of the year because I figured if you won an award no one’s going to take your stuff.
The way it all blew up was Linda Harris of The Philadelphia Inquirer bought this book with a poem inside, and she called me and asked me about it, and I thought this would be the end of everything. Instead, she wrote about it, and the article came out the first day of national poetry month, April 1, right on the front page. It was spectacular.
R&T: In addition to writing fiction and poetry, you also teach writing and have a freelance editing service. What would you say to new writers just starting out?
Ebenbach: It’s hard to boil it down, but this is an assignment I gave my students this summer, so I would pass this on. I told them to write the story you are not allowed to write. Not a true story, necessarily, but some story that would get you into trouble if someone said, "You wrote this?" Something that makes you look like a criminal or something that makes you look promiscuous or resentful or angry or that makes you into a person that you aren’t. You know, like you’re a woman, now. The story that you’re not allowed to tell, and that’s the story you should always be writing. The easy stuff? We don’t need you to write the easy stuff. Write the hard stuff and just don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.
For more on David Harris Ebenbach and his writing, visit his website.
Nannette Croce is Prose Editor at Rose & Thorn Journal.
Don't know how I missed the original post, but glad I caught it this time. Nice interview from both sides of the table.
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